LeninWeave [any]

The undeniable embarrassment that has been the launch of “YourParty” is another key indicator in his inability to manage things effectively.

Hey, I know this thread is probably long-dead by now, but I wanted to come back and mention that I actually do agree with you about this one.

I also do actually agree that downvotes have a negative effect overall on online discourse. Unfortunately, they’re widespread and I don’t see them going away soon, so they’re the reality we have to live with.

It may have been insensitive, but to say I was disparaging the homeless is not correct.

I meant that you were using the appearance of homelessness as a negative descriptor, which is naturally disparaging.

Just try to temper your language with people who are conversing with you, because you tend to go for the extremes.

I will point out to you that you came into this thread with a comment that bothered many people and not a single person, as far as I can tell, had a positive reaction. I saw your other comment about online discourse, but in this case you might want to consider that the common factor in these interactions, which frankly I don’t think are as extreme as you’re making them out to be (or at least as you’re making this one out to be), is your behavior in this thread.

My opinion (without the pedantry this time) is how you present yourself is a choice, having a view of someone based on their choices does not make me shallow.

In my opinion, thinking that deliberately choosing to present oneself in a way that doesn’t conform to social expectations for politicians (formal attire, upper-class coded) is, if not shallow, erroneous. But that’s my personal judgement, you disagree and think it’s a valuable metric, which is your right.

I chose to say shallow because I did think your first comment was shallow and you self-described it as superficial, though I suppose there is some minor difference between the two (I used them more or less interchangeably in this thread).

TBH I think what sunk him was his inability to take actual control of his party and purge the right wing of Labour who were constantly sabotaging him from the inside. Brexit definitely did him no favors, too.

Glad you liked the Long Corbyn joke! Have a good one.

I’m beginning to regret ignoring your obvious pivot to “you hate homeless people!” now.

TBH I debated not including that but decided to because I felt it was important. I respected that you just accepted that that was wrong and decided to apologize, but if you were thinking of arguing about it perhaps that respect was premature.

I don’t think this discussion is going anywhere. I think you’re shallow, and you admitted so yourself in your first comment. So, presumably, did the downvoters. That’s it, that’s all I really have to say.

We are all Jeremy Corbyn. You are also Jeremy Corbyn. This is what “Long Corbyn” means, everyone joins hands once it’s done and makes one really long Jeremy Corbyn.

As you read it back, it’s not actually what I said, your use of “imply” shows you are now realising it’s clearer I was just saying it’s important because he needs votes. (From many people)

From many people including yourself, because you choose to allow your superficial judgement of his appearance to impact your judgment of him even though you know it’s superficial. That’s my whole point here, you’re being shallow and you know it. That’s why people were upset at you and downvoted you.

If his appearance didn’t matter to you at all, but you were concerned about how it mattered only to other voters, that’s what you would have said in the first place.

Maybe the point I agree with the most, even though the intention was obviously not to disparage the homeless, I’ll be careful not to use that analogy in future.

Thank you.

and when there are comments (especially in political subs) they tend to be ad hominem attacks

“I know it’s superficial, but if you don’t look like someone who takes care of yourself, it’s hard to imagine you taking care of a country.”

I don’t recall relinquishing ownership of my stance.

If you know it’s superficial, why did you say it?

Just because it’s superficial doesn’t mean it’s not important, many others will think the exact same thing, will not take him seriously and won’t vote for him.

This seems like a pretty clear way to try to imply you were only speaking for others as a matter of practicality rather than being superficial yourself.

I think you think what I was saying is akin to racism, sexism, ageism etc. which got you coming out of the gate a bit aggressive.

I haven’t been particularly aggressive, but frankly your disparaging of the homeless (who have enough of a hard time already) in your first comment was unpleasant and more than a bit classist.

You’re the one who said “I know it’s superficial” and then carried on being superficial on purpose. I’m not reading into this, I’m just reading.

You’re allowed to do whatever you want, but if you’re going to be superficial by your own reckoning you shouldn’t try to avoid taking ownership of that when people dislike it.

Whilst looking like a homeless man begging for change outside of a tube station. I know it’s superficial, but if you don’t look like someone who takes care of yourself, it’s hard to imagine you taking care of a country.

At no point did you mention this “oh no it’s hard FOR OTHER PEOPLE to imagine it” cop-out until after you were called out for it. Also, you said the following in a different comment.

I don’t only judge Corbyn on his appearance, I’m just citing it as a contributing factor.

Let’s be clear, I’m not judging him based on immutable characteristics, just his presentation, everyone does this subconsciously or consciously every day, for some it doesn’t matter but when your trying to win votes and change opinions it’s not a good idea.

You knew it was superficial to judge him based on how he looks and you chose to do it anyway. You then acted as though the existence of bias in other people excused you knowingly indulging your own bias.

The fact that I recognise it’s superficial is irrelevant, I do have a list of reasons why I don’t like Corbyn as a politician, and his political stances I disagree with.

Maybe you should have brought those up instead.

At some point though I was less politically informed and his presentation probably made me less likely to imagine him leading the country.

Seems like the past tense here is not warranted, based on your original comment.

Are you saying that makes me a bad person?

I wouldn’t make a childish black and white judgement like that based on this one small interaction.

If so I’ve got really bad news for you; everyone has unconscious biases, the people that recognise them are in the minority.

When you recognize them, you’re meant to try to stop acting on them, which makes those biases go away. You don’t get credit for recognizing it’s bad and doing it anyway, if anything you get negative credit.

“I’m not superficial, I’m just speaking for other superficial people.”

I know it’s superficial, but if you don’t look like someone who takes care of yourself, it’s hard to imagine you taking care of a country.

This is what you said (emphasis added by me). Nothing about other people.

Don’t do this, have the courage of your convictions and stand by the things you say.

You can also just say that it was a superficial comment you shouldn’t have made.

You, by your own admission, said something you knew was superficial. I think it shouldn’t be hard for you to imagine why people were downvoting the comment, you said it yourself in the comment.

I know it’s superficial, but if you don’t look like someone who takes care of yourself, it’s hard to imagine you taking care of a country.

If you know it’s superficial, why did you say it?

If you’d like to clarify your position, I’m open to discussing. If you don’t want to, that’s OK, you can just not reply to me.

OK, I think we’re talking past each other here. I desire the end of the American empire and the total destruction of its ability to harm the global south (what you might call the third world). I consider HAMAS a valid anti-colonial resistance group with a righteous cause against the “Israeli” occupiers and their American enablers, not a “terrorist org”. Trump is my enemy insofar as the entire American state is my enemy. Unless we are agreed on those points, I don’t think we can be considered allies.

I take it back, you can think as hard as you like about it. I don’t think you’re going to learn anything as long as you’re attached to the idea that the problem with America is Trump.

“Trump is bad because he forces Americans to consider that HAMAS are on the right side of this and America isn’t.”

Careful, if you think too hard about it you might learn something about America and the Resistance.